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Alex. Calling me SG2 for OOC stuff is fine too. Freelance artist and general art and graphics hobbyist. I like my animu and mangoes, if you couldn't tell. My video games are my children. Also I like cats.

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 Element System Brainstorm, For discussing
Esjitu
 Posted: May 14 2014, 05:20 PM
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(I wanted to redo the actual element guide from the ground up but didn't want to get rid of the original topic where we worked a lot of this out, so I'm keeping it here - note that there WILL be things discussed here that have since been changed, and when in doubt, things explained in the new official element topic > this one)

IGNOPEDIA SECTION ON THE ELEMENTS

^ currently WIP but planned to be more comprehensive than this thread

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As you no doubt noticed, you were asked to choose one of nine elements upon registration. These 9 elements comprise the IGNOLand Elemental System. If you've ever played Pokemon in your life, you probably have an idea of how this works already, but let's break it down.

(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/YoOe0db.png)

Element chart graphic courtesy of Karma

This is the element chart. The flow of the arrows indicates what elements are strong and weak against the others - ex. fire has an arrow going towards ice, meaning fire is strong against ice. However, the arrow behind it, coming from water, means fire is weak against water. Understand?

The first thing you'll probably notice about the chart is that Shadow and Light are outside (inside?) the circle, unrelated to the other 7 elements. This means they only affect each other - to use the Pokemon example again, think ghost- or dragon-types. They're simultaneously strong and weak against one another.

Outside these 9 elements is the secret 'tenth element' - RAINBOW. This is less an element in itself however and more like the IGNOLand version of the Avatar. The power of the elements stems from the RAINBOW, so only those who embody the spirit of the RAINBOW can control all the elements. At this time, there is only one who possesses this unique trait, but it's unclear if there can only be one at a time (Avatar-style), or multiple RAINBOW users. Regardless, this is a special element and off-limits excepting certain circumstances, so don't try to cheat the system and select it as yours or I'll choose a real element for you.

Each element has associated personality types and recommended powers/fighting styles:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Note that the personalities that suit each element are merely a guideline, and aren't universally true. You may choose a particular element simply because you like it, or you registered before reading this topic. If you haven't established your character yet and would like your element to suit your personality, you can always change your element in your profile settings at any time. However, if your character has already been associated with a certain element for some time, and you would like to change it, it's preferred that you come up with some relevant in-character reasoning for this change.

This post has been edited by SG2Tiger: Nov 27 2015, 06:42 PM
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Karma
 Posted: May 15 2014, 11:12 AM
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These look great :)

Still don't have any ideas for Earth and Metal special traits though...:(

~VelkynKarma
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Esjitu
 Posted: May 16 2014, 10:46 PM
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I edited it to include the Earth trait I mentioned in the cbox - being able to burrow underground. As for metal, maybe something that makes them more resistant to damage from certain weapons? Like a sort of natural suit of armor (less so than actual armor, more just...extra resistant skin), so bladed weapons don't cut as deep, arrows are less likely to pierce, etc...
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littlegoten
 Posted: May 19 2014, 09:56 PM
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What about sub-elements or learning moves outside or your element? For example could Karma learn an ice move if she worked on it? Obviously it wouldn't be as strong as an actual ice users move but could she do it if she wanted? Thoughts?
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Karma
 Posted: May 19 2014, 10:11 PM
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I'm guessing it'd be okay considering you can also have additional strengths/weaknesses. For example, I'm Shadow-element aligned, so I'm automatically weak to Light. But as a vampire I'm also weak to Fire, and have more or less an immunity to Water since I'm undead so it's not like I can drown or anything. Etc, etc.

I'm not SG2 obviously so we'd need confirmation from her. But I'd assume, provided you actually have a reason as to why you're learning things outside 'your element,' and acknowledge that somebody aligned with that element is naturally stronger, that it'd be fine. (Like from your example: Kaiser Karma studies the arcane and eventually unlocks several ice spells, but if she were to go toe-to-toe with a natural Ice-element person in an ice-magic contest she'd lose).

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Esjitu
 Posted: May 19 2014, 10:41 PM
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I think as long as there was a way to keep it from being cheap, it would be fine. For instance, in addition to the element you're born with, maybe you can only study one additional element by choice. Whether or not you're stuck with that secondary choice or can 'replace' it later (like Pokemon having to forget previous moves to learn new ones, maybe there's some sort of natural elemental capacity and people can't handle more than that), I'm not sure.

However, I do think there would be a strict rule against learning the element you're naturally weak to - Shadow users shouldn't ever be able to learn Light, Fire users should never be able to learn Water, etc. You'd be naturally incompatible, regardless of how hard you've studied the other element (though study never hurts, you could always benefit from learning more about your greatest weaknesses and how to compensate for them!!). But aside from this snag, you'd probably be able to pick anything else...though as Karma mentioned, races that have their own handicap towards an element (like undead for fire) would probably have to avoid those as well.

And as you both said - secondary elements would never be as powerful as primaries. Even people like Hamel who have a racial affinity for a secondary element would probably be weaker than someone with that as their natural element. So in the above example of Karma learning ice, if she were to fight against a natural ice user, her ice magic would pale in comparison.

Lastly, a special case for Shadow types - since no one is born with Shadow, it means they started with another element already. Originally I was thinking Shadow just 'overwrote' it, but that's probably what would get automatically relegated to their secondary element without a need to study it (you'd already have experience, after all) - for instance, Hamel's fire abilities. Obviously this wouldn't work if you were born Light and became 'fallen'...your affinity for Light would automatically be lost.
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Karma
 Posted: May 19 2014, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (SG2Tiger @ May 19 2014, 09:41 PM)
Obviously this wouldn't work if you were born Light and became 'fallen'...your affinity for Light would automatically be lost.


There goes me being a paradox! >>;

But yeah that seems fair, if you were able to study everything you'd be an 'artificial Rainbow' and that's kinda massively unfair. I agree that if you're naturally weak to a certain element (either because of your alignment or your race) you shouldn't be able to use it at all (though like you said, you can still study it in order to learn everything about your weakness that you can--like I can study fire magic theory just so I know how best to defend myself against it, even if I could never use it as a vampire undead).

It should probably go without saying too that you can only learn spells to cast--you don't get the 'trait' that goes with your secondary study element (ex if somebody was Wind and studied Shadow they could use arcane/undead casting, but would not be naturally stealthy or shadowalk).

~VelkynKarma
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Karma
 Posted: Jul 7 2014, 01:42 AM
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Double-posting in order to update some discussions on IGNOLand Elements in other threads: namely, Elemental Abilities versus Arcane/Advanced Magic.

First some quotes in order:

QUOTE (Bradios @ Jul 4 2014, 10:09 PM)
I'm still debating whether or not to keep the whole magic-phobia thing canon with my character since all of you use some kind of magic and it wouldn't make that much sense in context.


QUOTE (SG2Tiger @ Jul 5 2014, 09:37 AM)
To be fair, I think of elemental abilities as different than magic. After all, even you have Metal abilities (which I imagine as more like alchemy). I think many characters are not magically inclined...even if they can use a few magical powers because of their element, that aspect isn't their specialty. I think the main magical entities Bradios would be scared of in that sense would be Karma (a witch), Fenix (a mage), and maybe Tim (also a mage, though he's a Clonomancer and doesn't seem to cast many spells). Oh, and Iris. Especially since she can't keep those magical allergies under control. I think it would be an interesting phobia for him...not necessarily that he's a huge scaredy-cat about interacting with them obviously, but if Karma cast a spell in front of him or something, I can see him getting nervous. Less about contact with magic users, more about contact with the magic itself, y'know?


QUOTE (Karma @ Jul 5 2014, 05:12 PM)
In a more serious light I was actually going to say this as well XD I think there's a difference between having an elemental inclination and characters completely devoting themselves to arcane arts. Most elemental abilities are just 'natural' or not obvious spellcasting (like my increased stealth, or the ability to withstand extreme temperatures that fire and ice offer, etc). Having an elemental affiliation does not necessarily mean that a person will be using magic on a regular basis, either, and even if you do use certain spells related to your element (lightning people shooting bolts, earth people causing earthquakes, whatever) it comes across as more natural. However people who classify as mages or witches would probably be studying a lot more to increase their abilities and likely have a wider range of powers not shackled specifically to their element (cloning has nothing to do with lightning; I can manipulate, create or destroy objects and use lots of utility spells but that's not inherently 'shadow' etc). I'd understand being nervous about casters because they'd be harder to predict--they have more advanced forms of magic that might not be predictable based on their elemental alignment, so yeah, you probably DO want to keep an eye on them. A fire-aligned mage might cast a fireball spell but he might also be turning you into a toadstool and unless you are well versed in magic there's no way you'd be able to know the difference and prepare.


So basically, there is a significant difference between Elemental Abilities or Element-granted magic, versus studying magic in-depth and using it beyond one's elemental nature. Arcane magic would let you do things "between" or "outside of" the rigid structure of elemental abilities--things that don't specifically fit into an elemental category. This could be anything from summoning, creating, banishing, or manipulating other objects or animals, 'utility' skills like cooking, cleaning, locking doors, organizing stuff, or get into heavier and more complex aspects like manipulating magical energy to one's will to perform specific tasks. Not everybody is made for magic, and typically you'll only find people who have studied it significantly using it (like witches, wizards, mages, sorcerers, etc). Some magical beings might have an affinity for it too that comes naturally.

This is also not to say that magic-users don't benefit from their alignments at all. If you're a fire-element person, you might have stronger fireball magic than other magic users or fire-aligned people. Shadow element people have an affinity for magic and it likely bolsters some necromantic or demonic powers.

However, you don't need to qualify as a caster in order to use spells or abilities related to your specific element. You could be a non-caster lightning type and be able to shoot lightning--you'd probably just not be able to use other kinds of magic unless you start studying. You will also benefit from your element-granted ability (like increased stealth, temperature resistance, etc) regardless of whether or not you can use any kind of casting at all. And just because you are aligned to a specific element does not mean you need to use magical abilities related to it either! You can be an Earth-element character without having the powers of earthquakes or slinging boulders. You might just be Earth-element because it fits your personality best!

~VelkynKarma
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Esjitu
 Posted: Jan 20 2015, 10:24 PM
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I feel like I should bump this with some of the info that has been included in the IGNOpedia elements section.

First of all, each element now has a term for people that use it. They are as follows:

-Firebrands (Fire)
-Frostweavers/Frostreapers Winterborn (Ice)
-Metalsmiths (Metal)
-Galeriders (Wind)
-Earthshapers (Earth)
-Stormbringers (Lightning)
-Tidecallers/Floodcallers Floodwakers? (Water)
-Shadowcasters (Shadow)
-Dawnseekers (Light)

I'm pretty set on some of these (firebrands, stormbringers, galeriders) but the others are still subject to change pending better suggestions. I would like to have more non-er words in there but it's a lot more difficult to come up with them, so for now this is good enough.

Additionally I have balanced the whole 'each element has a strong attribute' by giving each element a weak attribute as well:

Fire - enhanced strength, weakened luck (no particular reason)
Ice - enhanced intelligence, weakened defense (because ice is fragile)
Metal - enhanced defense, weakened intelligence (metal is the least-magical element)
Wind - enhanced luck, weakened skill (they rely on luck, so skill deteriorates)
Earth - enhanced vitality, weakened agility (earth is generally depicted as a slow element)
Lightning - enhanced agility, weakened vitality (I didn't mean for this to be the inverse of earth)
Water - enhanced skill, weakened strength (less about how hard you hit, more about how well you do it)

And of course, shadow and light are balanced and have no particular strengths and weaknesses because we only have seven attributes

There's more work being put into the horoscope side of the system as well, but it'll be slow coming because I am only one person and it's hard to come up with this stuff (in the meantime the articles for Fire and Ice are complete if you want to see what is planned). Keep an eye out on IGNOpedia, and as always, this thread is for open discussion/brainstorming/feedback.
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Esjitu
 Posted: Nov 28 2015, 01:02 AM
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So I decided to change the way sub-elements work, because the more I thought about it, the more I disliked the idea of people being able to change it whenever they wanted. Instead, I'm thinking certain people will just end up more like dual-type Pokemon - some people are just born with two elements, while others only get one. There are drawbacks either way, and sometimes it's better to only have a single element as your focus. Would like a bit of input, though, to quote the other thread:

QUOTE (Esjitu)
Occasionally, there will be people who are born on a borderline, falling between two elements. These people always have one element that is considered their 'primary' element - the one that represents them more closely, and provides their main elemental strengths and weaknesses - and one 'secondary' element. These secondary elements may contribute some additional skills to their repertoire, or provide access to a second special ability, and [not sure yet - would a dual-type get new weaknesses/resistances, like a Pokemon? Or would that remain dictated only by the primary element, to keep things simple? Is it too overpowered if the secondary element provides new skills without also providing new weaknesses? Is it too complicated to have to remember multiple weaknesses/resistances for certain members? Let me know, folks]. It is, however, impossible to have two contradictory elements - one cannot be both fire and water, or both light and shadow, or any other combination of an element and the element it's weak/strong against.

Understand that secondary elements are supposed to be RARE - not so rare that there are only 1-2 special snowflakes who can have them, but also not so common that just everyone gets to choose a secondary element. These will be considered on a case-to-case basis, so consult me first. Note that shadow users who CHOSE that path get a sort of 'free pass' at a secondary element, which would be the actual element they were born with.

Oh, by the way - I changed myself to a Fire/Earth dual-type. I'm no longer RAINBOW. Just didn't make sense anymore, without the backstory to explain it. But this way, I get to keep my ability to tunnel underground, even though fire ultimately suits my personality more.

Also still looking for better suggestions on a name for ice and water users. Pretty satisfied with everyone else except those two.
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